God, satan, angel, deamons, world, system, destination - Page 2 - Alphaville Forum

Clare · 14 May 2009, 19:04

Interesting topic. I'm not sure what I believe or not but it's very personal. I certainly don't believe in organised religion of any kind, I think it's something each person must decide for themselves. We can never know, certainly not in this life and maybe there isn't any other (I really hope there is!)

I've always believed that religion and children don't mix. Of course parents must teach their children right from wrong but I think children should be protected from organised religion until they are able to make up their own minds. Whenever I see words like "a muslim/christian or jewish child" I bristle. Children should be children and not brainwashed before they are old enough to understand the issues. *goes to hide behind the rock.*

Apollo · 14 May 2009, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clare

I think children should be protected from organised religion until they are able to make up their own minds.*

This again is an interesting statement. How about those cultures, where religion plays a more central role than in most of Western Europe? Protection should not go as far as to exclude children from this culture, otherwise this will be lost to them.

Clare · 14 May 2009, 19:49

maybe a way should be found to do that, separate the two. I really don't believe religion should be taught to children except as a theory, where they are free to make up their own mind. Of course I know it won't happen, but there would be a lot less wars if it did.

Apollo · 16 May 2009, 10:12

Oh I do not think that religion itself is the reason for wars. It may be used as an excuse for war, yes, but the decision to make war is done by people who are very much calculating on what they are doing. What's the difference between somebody using religion as the justification and someone using "superiority of the race" as justification? In both cases it's an excuse for the madness of these people, well, in my eyes it is anyway.

Loralai · 16 May 2009, 11:34

Mateusz, you are asking questions we have all asked of ourselves. You have received good answers from Apollo, The Blue and Clare to these age old questions. I shall add some of my knowledge that may be benefit to you.

A perfect place to start finding answers is to research the world religions and take note of the similarities in the respective creation, desired life attributes and vegetative/afterlife themes. There will be different names for similar or the same ideas that run through them all. Learn these well from Zoroastrian, Buddism, Hindi, Judaism, Islam, Catholacism to Protestantism and see how religion evolved. Know it's many purposes of mass conformity to personal growth.

Know that the truth of this existence is different for everyone but there is the common end result of gaining experience and knowledge we must possess for the "Next", whatever that may be. As we experience life's daily challenges we gain the wisdom of the world, more precisely our own individual world and if we look carefully for the answers to these questions they will come to us in time. There are some things we shall never know in this world so do not panic we will learn it in the Next.

Once you have studied the different faiths you will have a greater understanding of the social and personal need for religion. Of course this differs from person to person.

The struggle between good and evil is a reality for all of us. Know that our world is governed by the laws of science that requires a continual adjusting of balance between positive and negative, good and evil, and light and dark. Both Good and Evil are out there and we can control Evil easily by living and accepting Good as our way of life. We do have control over these and it is our personal choice to follow the Good or the Evil. Know it is out there.

Also understand that as individuals we may have personal insights into our reason to be. My personal understanding is that we are here to gain knowledge and learn the wisdon from our interactions with others. There is a great collective of mind and spirit that most Christians refer to as heaven. And yes, always go toward the light.

Mateusz · 16 May 2009, 13:35

thanks, for long answers, btw i was thinking before about all things, which you pointed here,... maybe i want too much, but sometimes, some forces are too strong... too strong,.. and i must to find to some good answer, because in another case i will be someone, who i don't want to be, and i shouldn't to be (maybe...)

Clare · 16 May 2009, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo

Oh I do not think that religion itself is the reason for wars. It may be used as an excuse for war, yes, but the decision to make war is done by people who are very much calculating on what they are doing. What's the difference between somebody using religion as the justification and someone using "superiority of the race" as justification? In both cases it's an excuse for the madness of these people, well, in my eyes it is anyway.

I agree the generals are acting in a cold calculated way, but I'm not so sure of many of the foot soldiers. Many of them will have had a religion drummed into them from very early childhood and truly believe that what they are doing is right. How else can they be persuaded to go to what is very often a certain and brutal death.

TheBlue · 16 May 2009, 21:24

Clare, I do indeed agree whith you. Religion should be thing that comes through age. There is so much information about every religion and view over the world, that one can easily find out himself/herself what to believe in.

About war, I think that fear is one thing that makes soldier fight. If you don't fight you most probably die. On the other hand I read somewhere that in WWII most of british soldiers shot only to sky. Who knows the truth, but if I had to be soldier in war I wouldn't know what to do.

Mateusz · 16 May 2009, 23:42

..so because you told about war.. WAR is a one big sh.. Better way is to kill your self than someone... and army is for nothing. What? we need to defend? defend from who? the green people from the space?? yeah from bad people who want to kill our family and friends... yop... sure.... and? there is one way to know the real answer... we must to know the truth... yeah i'm sick, but it's not my fall for sure. I h..e this world.

Loralai · 17 May 2009, 07:09

Mateusz I am feeling that you are concerned about being put into a situation of which you have no control that will cause you to act in a way you do not wish or to become someone / something you are not.

To a certain degree we are all experiencing that same situation of being held at the whim of our respective countries and their military. The Cold War has been resurrected and to be honest there is a good possibility this will not turn out well.

This is a dangerous time for us all but to overcome the fear of it all we must look into ourselves to understand and rely upon that strength of who we are so that we may be able to cope better with what ever the future holds for us as a society and more importantly for us personally.

Throughout recorded history there have been people and societies who concerned themselves with controlling others, through religion and politics. This time is no different just the names and places are different. That is why the old expression, "history repeats itself" rings true for all time.

Your concern about having someone shove a weapon into your hands and tell you to go and shoot someone in the name of national security is unfortunate and I know the high level of emotion you are experiencing through your words.

I wish there were comforting words to share with you as I am at a disadvantage in not completely understanding your situation. What I feel I do know is the urgency and fear in your words and I wish I could bring to you some sense of peace through the knowledge of self.

Keep faith in the Good and always walk in the Light.

14 May 2009, 19:04	#11
Clare Alphanut Join Date: 31 Mar 2001 Location: By a river, near Fort William in view of Ben Nevis Posts: 9,969	Interesting topic. I'm not sure what I believe or not but it's very personal. I certainly don't believe in organised religion of any kind, I think it's something each person must decide for themselves. We can never know, certainly not in this life and maybe there isn't any other (I really hope there is!) I've always believed that religion and children don't mix. Of course parents must teach their children right from wrong but I think children should be protected from organised religion until they are able to make up their own minds. Whenever I see words like "a muslim/christian or jewish child" I bristle. Children should be children and not brainwashed before they are old enough to understand the issues. goes to hide behind the rock. "I've had many sobering thoughts in my life.... ....it was them what drove me to drink!" [drunk] Grandad, Only Fools and Horses (UK sitcom)

14 May 2009, 19:49	#13
Clare Alphanut Join Date: 31 Mar 2001 Location: By a river, near Fort William in view of Ben Nevis Posts: 9,969	maybe a way should be found to do that, separate the two. I really don't believe religion should be taught to children except as a theory, where they are free to make up their own mind. Of course I know it won't happen, but there would be a lot less wars if it did. "I've had many sobering thoughts in my life.... ....it was them what drove me to drink!" [drunk] Grandad, Only Fools and Horses (UK sitcom)

16 May 2009, 11:34	#15
Loralai Exclusive Fanclub Member Join Date: 12 Feb 2008 Location: Atlantic Canada Posts: 389	Mateusz, you are asking questions we have all asked of ourselves. You have received good answers from Apollo, The Blue and Clare to these age old questions. I shall add some of my knowledge that may be benefit to you. A perfect place to start finding answers is to research the world religions and take note of the similarities in the respective creation, desired life attributes and vegetative/afterlife themes. There will be different names for similar or the same ideas that run through them all. Learn these well from Zoroastrian, Buddism, Hindi, Judaism, Islam, Catholacism to Protestantism and see how religion evolved. Know it's many purposes of mass conformity to personal growth. Know that the truth of this existence is different for everyone but there is the common end result of gaining experience and knowledge we must possess for the "Next", whatever that may be. As we experience life's daily challenges we gain the wisdom of the world, more precisely our own individual world and if we look carefully for the answers to these questions they will come to us in time. There are some things we shall never know in this world so do not panic we will learn it in the Next. Once you have studied the different faiths you will have a greater understanding of the social and personal need for religion. Of course this differs from person to person. The struggle between good and evil is a reality for all of us. Know that our world is governed by the laws of science that requires a continual adjusting of balance between positive and negative, good and evil, and light and dark. Both Good and Evil are out there and we can control Evil easily by living and accepting Good as our way of life. We do have control over these and it is our personal choice to follow the Good or the Evil. Know it is out there. Also understand that as individuals we may have personal insights into our reason to be. My personal understanding is that we are here to gain knowledge and learn the wisdon from our interactions with others. There is a great collective of mind and spirit that most Christians refer to as heaven. And yes, always go toward the light. I am easily satisfied with the very best. Winston Churchill

16 May 2009, 21:24	#18
TheBlue Elevator Join Date: 21 Mar 2007 Location: Oulu, Finland Posts: 634	Clare, I do indeed agree whith you. Religion should be thing that comes through age. There is so much information about every religion and view over the world, that one can easily find out himself/herself what to believe in. About war, I think that fear is one thing that makes soldier fight. If you don't fight you most probably die. On the other hand I read somewhere that in WWII most of british soldiers shot only to sky. Who knows the truth, but if I had to be soldier in war I wouldn't know what to do. One really can't argue with mathematical theorem -Stephen Hawking

16 May 2009, 23:42	#19
Mateusz Banned Join Date: 05 Jun 2008 Posts: 2,001	..so because you told about war.. WAR is a one big sh.. Better way is to kill your self than someone... and army is for nothing. What? we need to defend? defend from who? the green people from the space?? yeah from bad people who want to kill our family and friends... yop... sure.... and? there is one way to know the real answer... we must to know the truth... yeah i'm sick, but it's not my fall for sure. I h..e this world. Last edited by Mateusz; 16 May 2009 at 23:48.

16 May 2009, 10:12	#14
Apollo Lost in time and space Join Date: 01 Apr 2007 Location: Brühl, Germany Posts: 573	Oh I do not think that religion itself is the reason for wars. It may be used as an excuse for war, yes, but the decision to make war is done by people who are very much calculating on what they are doing. What's the difference between somebody using religion as the justification and someone using "superiority of the race" as justification? In both cases it's an excuse for the madness of these people, well, in my eyes it is anyway.

16 May 2009, 13:35	#16
Mateusz Banned Join Date: 05 Jun 2008 Posts: 2,001	thanks, for long answers, btw i was thinking before about all things, which you pointed here,... maybe i want too much, but sometimes, some forces are too strong... too strong,.. and i must to find to some good answer, because in another case i will be someone, who i don't want to be, and i shouldn't to be (maybe...)

17 May 2009, 07:09	#20
Loralai Exclusive Fanclub Member Join Date: 12 Feb 2008 Location: Atlantic Canada Posts: 389	Mateusz I am feeling that you are concerned about being put into a situation of which you have no control that will cause you to act in a way you do not wish or to become someone / something you are not. To a certain degree we are all experiencing that same situation of being held at the whim of our respective countries and their military. The Cold War has been resurrected and to be honest there is a good possibility this will not turn out well. This is a dangerous time for us all but to overcome the fear of it all we must look into ourselves to understand and rely upon that strength of who we are so that we may be able to cope better with what ever the future holds for us as a society and more importantly for us personally. Throughout recorded history there have been people and societies who concerned themselves with controlling others, through religion and politics. This time is no different just the names and places are different. That is why the old expression, "history repeats itself" rings true for all time. Your concern about having someone shove a weapon into your hands and tell you to go and shoot someone in the name of national security is unfortunate and I know the high level of emotion you are experiencing through your words. I wish there were comforting words to share with you as I am at a disadvantage in not completely understanding your situation. What I feel I do know is the urgency and fear in your words and I wish I could bring to you some sense of peace through the knowledge of self. Keep faith in the Good and always walk in the Light. I am easily satisfied with the very best. Winston Churchill