AP and religion

[Avil]

So, Mr Lloyd thought about this topic, so well, let´s start it.
Does AP really have something to do with religion or is it just a name?

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[Bernhard Lloyd]

hmm yeah let´s talk about religion....i´m sure you don´t want me to explain anything<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

+0:-)
http://www.atlanticpopes.de
everybody is a pope......

[Avil]

In fact, of course we do Bernhard! *lol*
But well, I was quite suprised when I saw what the name of this band was, I mean Atlantic Popes isn´t the first thing I would have though about. I read why you took this name, but it didn´t get much more clear when I got the explanation. Everybody is a pope, what do you mean with that? A pope is someone religious, and that´s the last thing I am. I don´t believe in any higher force, I just can´t so AP just seems like a big joke for me. Not in a bad way though!
There must be something more behind the name.

And Bernd even has a little pope in his signature, which throws something even more religious over the whole thing!
I´m just waiting for a church song or something now.

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[micki]

well, they had "hallelujah" in "To Germany With Love" (here we go again <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>)...
...but, that was AV again...bah <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>...

"the 80's child"

[AV_defender]

where is the explanation readable??

anyway..maybe the phrase everybody is a pope means that every one is its own god, religion or leader through their life..so we should just rely on ourselves and therefore we dont need religions because we make them by ourselves..
like Depeche Mode said: personal jesus

/Defender-The Watcher Of The Scene

[Alien]

I'm not too much into religion too. But I respect people who believe. Though I don't know what I believe in... For me always religious stories were kinda legends and fairytails and nothing more...
AP should have something to do with religion... I can't imagine word POPE outside religion.

http://alien-land.narod.ru/alien-land/newsign.gif
I can see you through...

[Bernhard Lloyd]

very very interesting....go on!<img src=icon_smile_8ball.gif border=0 align=middle>

+0:-)
http://www.atlanticpopes.de
everybody is a pope......

[Avil]

HA!!! While we are sweating here, Bernhard just lends back, lights a cigarrets and tells us to go on...*LOL*

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[Bernhard Lloyd]

yeah...i´d like to know what you all think about relgion and popes and life in general and the connection of all this to AP.
...don´t be angry with me ...just because i light a cigarette <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

+0:-)
http://www.atlanticpopes.de
everybody is a pope......

[Avil]

Not angry Bernhard, just thinking of your health!! Remember, it´s not healthy for small babies, especially Mortens to have smoke around themselves...eeh..or something

Back the the topic.
I´m wondering if AP doesn´t have less with religion to do than we think today.
Everytime you see the name Atlantic POPES you think, oh the pope, the vatican etc, it´s all religious.
But trent mentioned, and Bernhard confirmed that the real reason for the "popes" part was just to show that everyone was worth just as much as someone else, no matter status, rang or whatever.
That could be the def of AP aswell, that the bandmembers are worth just as much as you and me.

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[micki]

ok, don't count me in as one of the popes, I'm the GOD, man...hehe, ookey, [u]j/k</u>...I'm not a pope, I'm the floorcleaner, drunkerd in the street, what else...hmm... well, basically everything that is under everyone else. What am I worth? Not a shit I say, but I don't care, I'm starting to get used to that...and u know what, I wonder why the f**k I'm being so cynical now...maybe it's the atmosphere, I don't know...<img src=icon_smile_dead.gif border=0 align=middle>

"the 80's child"

[buttman]

Alright, I must admid it - I gave it a few serious thoughts and... I just don't get that 'popes' symbolism.

Religion in itself is a very personal thing and every sign of making it more 'institutional' makes me sick. Is repeating the prayers over and over a good way of communicating with God? Is it a way of communicating with anyone? No.

I was brought yp as a catholic, but when I grew up (yes, I believe I did already) I decided to stay a quasi-ateist. Quasi, because I believe there is a big power that made all of this possible, but I haven't found the religion that would show God without any fanatism and pushing people to do certain things just to proove that they actually believe.

Now burn me.

[Avil]

Well religion is only one thing if you think once again. It´s faith.
You believe in something, in such an extent that you see it as the truth.
We talked about this in school, about religion and science, and decided that religion is something someone thinks, while science is something that proves what someone thinks!
You could see a pope in different ways.
Either is he very big and mighty, but after given it a second though...he isn´t more than a human aswell...

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[buttman]

Damn it! Will, could you just delete the repeated mails? Thanks!

[Trent]

Ok we already established that "everybody is a pope" means that we are all equal...and just because a title or a name has connotation of religion...doesn't necessarily mean that it's filled and soaked in religious beliefs and YOU MUST obey what I think or else...By the way...Why such a clamor for the word "pope" in a title of the band...when with Alphaville there were hints and bread crumb trails of religion and faith and religious substance all the time in the songs...if you guys are all so athiest...why DO YOU listen to Alphaville is me question...this is something I have yet to understand...if you believe in nothing, how CAN YOU listen to "Faith" or "Fools" or I don't know how many more songs that have religious connotation. religion is "Institutional" yes..."Faith" in me opinion has nothing to do with religion...it's just a place where all the faithful of one particular subject gather to be with each other and talk about their faith...If you think about it...as a religion...then we are ALL relligious here as we come here in faith of Alphaville and Atlantic Popes to talk about the bands we love and have faith in
@Olek: I was brought up Catholic as well...I am the same as you on religion....I believe there is a higher power...I just can't seem to find a church or religion that doesn't make a person feel like total shite if you do something they feel is wrong...sick of the judging!! But I won't let that stop me from believing in "God"? Whoever, whatever, whenever he/she/it is....Anyway...what I was basically saying was....Maybe "Pope" has nothing to do with religion but more to do with humanity...we are ALL equal...maybe "The Greatest Bernhard" and Max are trying to say something...Maybe if all the churches believed in his views, being religious with a church wouldn't be such a pain in the arse...everyone would be equal and no one would ever feel they are being attacked if they accidently slip...Maybe...I could be wrong..But what a wonderful world that would be huh? But then yet...if we all believed in the same things....Life would be so boring and we wouldn't be here talking about the Popes!

"When I close my eyes, I see my soul...When I open them, I see yours"...
Trent


Edited by - Trent on 20 Dec 2001 16:47:23

[micki]

quote:Originally posted by Olek:

Damn it! Will, could you just delete the repeated mails? Thanks!



Olek, you can do that yourself as well, just click on the icon that pictures the trashcan above the post you wanna delete, and that's it!

"the 80's child"

[buttman]

Oh... I haven't noticed that. Thanks for the tip. Next time I'll do my best to not to make clown of myself... Is it possible at all?

As for the topic - I really don't get the symbolism behind 'everyone is a pope'. Why pope? Wasn't it just a random word that poped-up when Max and Bernhard was thinking about naming their band?

It would be nice of Bernhard if he gave us a tip as - let's say - Christmas present <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Trent]

I already told you! They picked "pope" because that represents someone that is high up in power...When you think of people in high authority...Who do you think of? 1. The President 2. The Pope 3. etc. etc. It would be the same if they chose the name Atlantic Presidents...But that just doesn't work as well and sounds bloody well stupid if I say so meself....And choosing "Pope" I also think is a sort of smack in the face to the Catholic church...Maybe even all churches...THAT is what I think of when I see "Everybody is a Pope" Try telling that to the Catholic church...They'd faint!!!

"When I close my eyes, I see my soul...When I open them, I see yours"...
Trent

[buttman]

Alrighty Trent, but this is just your point of view. Your interpretation. And I am curious about real genesis of 'popes'. Maybe your idea is 100% true, maybe not.

I like to find out about things right from the source. For example - who would guess that 'BIJ' is about drug addict couple? There were so many strange interpretations...

[Trent]

Trent
Golden Dreamer

Posts: 742
From: Vatican City
Registered: Dec 2000
Posted 19 Dec 2001 22:13:49
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you all think that maybe the signature "Everybody is a Pope" means that we are all equal and no one is higher or lower in life than the other?

"When I close my eyes, I see my soul...When I open them, I see yours"...
Trent


Bernhard Lloyd
Bell II

Posts: 201
From: Germany
Registered: Jan 2001
Posted 20 Dec 2001 02:34:08
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well trent....that´s what it means.
god damn right!
but let´s move this discussion to the "AP and religion" topic

+0:-)
http://www.atlanticpopes.de
everybody is a pope......


This is part of the discussion that belongs here...This topic skips a beat without this here...


"When I close my eyes, I see my soul...When I open them, I see yours"...
Trent

[Avil]

I think this expression was a very clever way to tell us this message

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[buttman]

Well, this is another proof that usually the best thing I can do is to shut up.

[Trent]

Now that wouldn't be too lucritive now would it?

"When I close my eyes, I see my soul...When I open them, I see yours"...
Trent

[Bernhard Lloyd]

...well just a thought: don´t you think it´s possible that POPES was only choosen because it contains the word POP....hmmm...but i don´t want to confuse you...<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

+0:-)
http://www.atlanticpopes.de
everybody is a pope......

[Avil]

Nope, I don´t think so.
I wouldn´t call AP´s music pop, pop is too easy to be connected with this kind of music.
When you say pop you think of Britney Spears or Nsync...when you say AP u can´t come up with something that fits.

Popes just because it contained POP? No way? In that case you could have named yourself Atlantic Popcorn.

I think Bernd just said that because he wanted to confuse us...*mutters*

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

Edited by - Avil on 22 Dec 2001 18:29:29

[Bernhard Lloyd]

...and @ olek: please don´t shut up...you have prooven that you are clever...remember i owe you a beer <img src=icon_smile_kisses.gif border=0 align=middle>
...although i must admit that trent is somehow maybe a little bit on the right track...<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

+0:-)
http://www.atlanticpopes.de
everybody is a pope......

[Bernhard Lloyd]

@avil: that´s a question of definition.
britney spears has got nothing to do with pop...i think it´s cr..sorry ...it´s not very amusing for my taste...

+0:-)
http://www.atlanticpopes.de
everybody is a pope......

[micki]

Bernd, I have to say that I agree with you about Britney...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>...cr...yeah..hmm..ehe <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Santa's little helper"

[Avil]

Yeah maybe, but you must agree that when you think of pop you see all those boy- and girlbands. Popmusic is popularmusic, and popularmusic nowadays are music that are commercial and therefor sells!

Then is it a matter of taste if you like this music or not.

quote:Originally posted by Bernhard Lloyd:

@avil: that´s a question of definition.
britney spears has got nothing to do with pop...i think it´s cr..sorry ...it´s not very amusing for my taste...

+0:-)
http://www.atlanticpopes.de
everybody is a pope......


And BTW...*smiles*
I got downloaded Britney´s new album today...
Hihi...(not for myself though, but anyway.)


~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[russharvey]

hey Olek! Without you, the Dreamscapes booklet would have been a couple pages smaller.....

Keep the funny stuff coming, man!

As for the Popes..... listen to World... its a song about not letting somebody tell you what to do... about living your life on your terms and not letting others hold you back.... could easily be interpreted as a knock against organized religion and their rules..... so everybody is a pope is like saying that you must believe in yourself, that you control your destiny, that you are no better or worse than anyone else around you.... maybe the Atlantic Popes is a new religion.... one that worships individuality and celebrates POP!!!!!

just my two cents!

***This life is expensive, but at least it comes with a free trip around the sun!***

[micki]

I think that music genres are kinda like their own religions usually... but AV was like it's completely own religion to me when I discovered it..so many musical genres and styles...and it's own imaginary world, our utopia...I bet there's a kida same thing with P too...about the own "religion" and "world"... ...if I'd only get to hear it...but well, I will someday!!

Merry Christmas!!!...

"Santa's little helper"

[Alien]

I agree with Avil... term POP comes from POPular...

quote:Originally posted by Avil:

Yeah maybe, but you must agree that when you think of pop you see all those boy- and girlbands. Popmusic is popularmusic, and popularmusic nowadays are music that are commercial and therefor sells!

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~


http://alien-land.narod.ru/alien-land/newsign.gif
I can see you through...

[micki]

It's not a matter of agreement, it does come from the word popular...

"Santa's little helper"

[Alien]

I said a little wrong... I wanted to say that POP for everyone is something like boys- and girlsbands, Britney Spears and her clones because they're popular... And you can't say that AP are popular. That's what I agreed with Avil.

http://alien-land.narod.ru/alien-land/newsign.gif
I can see you through...

[micki]

..and I was just joking...U know...

"Santa's little helper"

[Alien]

I know... I know...

http://alien-land.narod.ru/alien-land/newsign.gif
I can see you through...

[Avil]

I just think Bernhard mentioned the word pop just to see us being so confused!

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[micki]

apparently he thinks it's funny to see us confused..?? I tell you, that guy's got a sick sense of humor (but a good one..)...

"Santa's little helper"

[Alien]

hoho... if Bernd wants to see us confused we'll work on it... I think we need to continue discussing what is POP and what is not instead of who is POPE and who's not!

http://alien-land.narod.ru/alien-land/newsign.gif
I can see you through...

[micki]

what, Who...huh? Explain me a little more exact, would you my dear Alien, I don't think I got that one...*confused*

"Santa's little helper"

[Alien]

if it was unclear?

http://alien-land.narod.ru/alien-land/newsign.gif
I can see you through...

[Avil]

You could always start with the question; what is religion?? I mean it can be very different from person to person.
For me religion is something to lend back on, something to find support, faith!
For many others religion is to believe in a higher power, I don´t. I can´t think of any god, I don´t believe a word of the things written in the bible (even though some expressions can be very good).
I believe in evoulution not Adam and Eve!

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[micki]

...happy now, mr. Lloyd?? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Santa's little helper"

[Alien]

As I said earlier for me religion is like fairytales...

http://alien-land.narod.ru/alien-land/newsign.gif
I can see you through...

[Avil]

Please explain that for us alien...=)

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[Alien]

I mean that all these stories about Adam and Eve and so on are like fairytales. You can read them but you can't believe... That's my point of view...

http://alien-land.narod.ru/alien-land/newsign.gif
I can see you through...

[micki]

...and the Bible is just a book with collected ancient Persian stories!! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
I agree with you Alien...

"Santa's little helper"

[Avil]

Yeah but I think its like that!
I mean how can u possibly believe those stories?? How do we know that this and that really happend? Maybe there is someone that wrote this many many years ago, in ancient times that are sitting and laughing his ass off when he see that there acctually are so many people believe in these things

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[Alien]

... but still they're interesting to read.

http://alien-land.narod.ru/alien-land/newsign.gif
I can see you through...

[Avil]

Yes yes, I can agree to that.
Much can be interesting to read even though you don´t believe it.

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[micki]

yep, but they don't actually intrest me like that anymore...I've read already enough of them... time to move to new water.

"Santa's little helper"

[Alien]

who says that I read them? last time I read something from them was... hm... eeeeerm... some years ago...

http://alien-land.narod.ru/alien-land/newsign.gif
I can see you through...

[Avil]

Hahaha, I haven´t read the original bible, only the cartoonversion!

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[Alien]

hehe... cartoonversion is much more interesting!

http://alien-land.narod.ru/alien-land/newsign.gif
I can see you through...

[Avil]

Yeah it was much more easy to follow the illustraded book! haha

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[Alien]

hehe... Bernd, I hope you like our discussion!

Bible for children is great book! Illustrations are so beautiful... There's not much text there...

http://alien-land.narod.ru/alien-land/newsign.gif
I can see you through...

[micki]

I've read them both...when I was a child...when I still was looking for the truth...

"Santa's little helper"

[Avil]

I don´t think it´s neccassary to read every little word, the most important thing is that u understand the message

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[micki]

yep..but usually small words can change a complete message, and leaving a few words unread might wring our knowledge about the truth written in that book...

"Santa's little helper"

[Avil]

Yes that is very very true!!!!!!
I mean reading these words

I don´t love you
Leaving this "don´t" out, can change the whole sentence to something completely different.

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[micki]

*dingg*...bullseye!!...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Santa's little helper"

[Trent]

Religion is an organized group of people that believe in the same thing or faith...And I still don't know how you all can listen to AV and not be a little aware of the Bible...Am I the only Alphavillian that is not an Athiest? I also wonder why you people bother celebrating Christmas?? This I don't get! Explain to me..

"When I close my eyes, I see my soul...When I open them, I see yours"...
Trent


Edited by - Trent on 25 Dec 2001 11:27:26

[Avil]

Christmas is to celebrate the birth of Jesus.
Nowdays, it´s only a chance for some free time for many people. We celebrate it just because it´s a time when you can be with your family, and the most important thing: share gifts! =)

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[russharvey]

Well, with the commercialization of Christmas, even non-Christians are celebrating! I used to work with a man from Iran - they are strict muslim, yet they put up a tree and give gifts..... they focus on Santa and giving gifts, rather than on Jesus Christ. And that is fine..... people should be free to worship how and whatever they want to. You don't have to be a Christian to have love in your heart - or desire to serve and help your fellow man - we don't have a corner on that market! So why should you have to be a Christian to enjoy Christmas? After all, it is the one time of the year when we really try to care for eachother and focus on giving instead of receiving... and that is good for everyone, even athiests! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Marian once said that he enjoys learning about religions - that he is fascinated by it, although he himself is not religious. I don't know if Bernhard is religious or not, but certainly, religion has influenced them in some small way and it shows up in some of their music.

If it didn't, we wouldn't be having this conversation!

***This life is expensive, but at least it comes with a free trip around the sun!***

[Trent]

I just don't get the bandwagon mentality of saying "Merry Christmas" to someone and not meaning a damn word you just said...Why should only Christians celebrate Christmas? That to me is a silly question...Cause Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ...(Christ + Mass) Simple....As for Santa...He believed in Christ too...As for commercialism...There are still some people in the world that haven't fallen into that black hole...And I commend them..As for athiests...Can't maybe form a new way of caring and being with your family? And I guess the sharing gifts part has no significant reason other than to share gifts for athiests too...like you can't do that all year round or something...Or on February 17th or something..I don't know...(Knows he's going to piss someone off here soon...thinks he should shut up) I have this sneaky feeling I am the only non athiest in Alphaville...

"When I close my eyes, I see my soul...When I open them, I see yours"...
Trent

[russharvey]

I am a non-athiest Trent! I celebrate Christmas to honor the birth of the Saviour Jesus Christ!

However, I respect others rights to celebrate this day on the calendar any way they choose!

***This life is expensive, but at least it comes with a free trip around the sun!***

[Trent]

HEy me too mate...never said they couldn't...I just don't understand it, and me when I don't understand something..I have a bad habit of saying "What?" Heh!

"When I close my eyes, I see my soul...When I open them, I see yours"...
Trent

[Alien]

We don't really celebrate Xmas in our family. We just say "Merry Christmas!" to eachother and to our friends. And time for sharing gifts is New Years Night. That's the way it is here...

http://alien-land.narod.ru/alien-land/newsign.gif
I can see you through...

[Trent]

Are you an Athiest Alien? And by saying "Here" are you meaning Russia? OR just your family?

"When I close my eyes, I see my soul...When I open them, I see yours"...
Trent


Edited by - Trent on 26 Dec 2001 20:21:59

[poul e]

I celebrate x-mas as well but not for religious reasons. Jesus wasn´t even born on December 25, but some time earlier when there were still sheep walking around in the fields. I´m not sure if anyone knows the excate day of his birth. Christmas was originally a celebration of the Sun God or something. I don´t suppose too many of you have heard this before, but if you dig a little you´ll be surprised what you learn . . .
Maybe I should try to do it myself so I can be more precise?!


http://www.virtue.nu/wii/Poul_E.gif

[poul e]

I just searched the net and found this:

History of the Celebration of Christmas

People have celebrated a mid-winter festival since pre-historic times. They marked the beginning of longer hours of daylight with fires and ritual offerings. The Roman festival of Saturnalia -- a time for feasting and gambling -- lasted for weeks in December. Germanic tribes of Northern Europe also celebrated mid-winter with feasting, drinking and religious rituals.
It's thought that Jesus of Nazareth was born in springtime. December 25th was chosen for the celebration of his birth by a Pope, Julius I, in the 4th century -- to include a Christian element in the long-established mid-winter festivals.

Also in the 4th century, a bishop in Turkey who came to be called St. Nicholas was known for good deeds involving children. St. Nicholas is illustrated in medieval and renaissance paintings as a tall, dignified and severe man. His feast day on December 6 was celebrated throughout Europe until about the 16th century. Afterwards, he continued to be known in Protestant Holland.

Dutch children would put shoes by the fireplace for St. Nicholas or "Sinter Klaas" and leave food out for his horse. He'd gallop on his horse between the rooftops and drop candy down the chimneys into the children's shoes. Meanwhile, his assistant, Black Peter, was the one who popped down the chimneys to leave gifts behind. Dutch settlers brought the legend of Sinter Klaas to North America -- where we came to know him as Santa Claus. The "jolly old elf" with his sleigh drawn by reindeer was first described by Clement Clarke Moore, in the poem "The Night Before Christmas" . Click here to see the Harper's Weekly cartoon that was inspired by this poem.

Although it was never celebrated in biblical times, Christmas is celebrated in local churches here in Visalia, California in praise of the fact that God loved us so much, he sent his one and only son to earth. He was wholey god and wholey man. Whereas we have succumbed to the temptations of this earth, Jesus was able to overcome all temptations and live a sinless life. He was then crucified as the perfect sacrifice for our sins. One can not understand why we celebrate the birth of Christ without seeing the other end of his life. He was crucified for our sins and resurrected.

Christmas was declared a Federal Holiday in America on June 26, 1870 under the government headed by President Ulysses S. Grant during the period of reconstruction following the American Civil War. Thus, it is untrue that Christmas has always been a Federal holiday. When Charles Dickens published his Christmas Carol in 1843, the US Government was a Scrooge and remained so for 26 years. However, it is a holiday in the United States this year!

Thus, in our culture is "Christmas" a seasonal celebration of winter or a religious celebration honoring the birth of Christ? In truth, it is a mixture of both with, as any economist will confirm, quite a bit of materialism thrown in.

So there you have it - a little X-mas history.


http://www.virtue.nu/wii/Poul_E.gif

[Trent]

Yes, what you are talking about is the Pagan holiday "Winter Solstice" ..."Christmas" was started by the Christians to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ..No of course they didn't know the date or month that he was born..Some legends claim that the Christian "Christmas" celebration was invented to compete against the pagan celebrations of December...The 25th was not only sacred to the Romans but also the Persians whose religion Mithraism was one of Christianity's main rivals at that time. The Church eventually was successful in taking the merriment, lights, and gifts from the Saturanilia festival and bringing them to the celebration of Christmas....I know more on this...but I won't go on and on and bore you all...*Is a historian buff for those here that don't know that*

"When I close my eyes, I see my soul...When I open them, I see yours"...
Trent

[micki]

as i remember, it was some sort of sungod they worshiped, gave him some sacrifices, and as things got more modern, people started fighting against humansacrifices, and they disguised it into something more acceptable so that people would somehow be keeping this "custom" alive...I know it sounds very dark, but that's how it is according to history...cruel, but true.

"Santa's little helper"

[wii]

I found this about how Atlantic Popes got their name:

Atlantic stands for freedom and energy. And Popes has a lot of contradictionary meanings....it s not that easy to explain ...we like the idea that everybody is a pope.. and thats for sure very different from what THE pope thinks....well we have quiet different opinions about life in general. And it contains the word POP.

And that is what our music is about.

http://www.alphaville.org/images/dance.gif

[micki]

"the wild, wavy pop-es"...

"Santa's little helper"

[Alien]

Mostly I meant my family but it's the same in Russia. Here people celebrate more New Year than Xmas. There wasn't religion for more than 70 years. But nowadays more and more people celebrate Christ like chismas and go to church.
But our family is atheistic...

quote:Originally posted by Trent:

Are you an Athiest Alien? And by saying "Here" are you meaning Russia? OR just your family?

"When I close my eyes, I see my soul...When I open them, I see yours"...
Trent



http://alien-land.narod.ru/alien-land/newsign.gif
I can see you through...

[AV_defender]

i dont think of religion and faith as the same thing..religion is something that is world known and that many believe in..faith is something that you rely and believe in, something thats personal for you that makes you feel safe in this world.

i remember last summer when i started reading the bible,just for fun and to see what made Marian read it 5 times..after 3 pages i started to get thoughts about the christian religion that ive never had b4,thoughts like what if jesus really made all those miracles..what if he really was gods son..at this point i realized that i was on my way to loose my own faith for something that was written in a book without no proof for excistance at all...it was scary.

the two religions which are closest to my faith is the mixup of hindu and buddha...it seems believable that everything is only suffering in the end,and to stay happy you'll have to find peace and compassion within your soul.

/Defender-The Watcher Of The Scene

[micki]

Religion is The "truth" you believe in, and faith is what your belief is called, it describes your belief in the Religion, if it's strong, weak, assured, sceptic etc...so faith and Religion are two completely different things even if they relate real closely to each other...

"Santa's little helper"

[AV_defender]

that was just my point....

/Defender-The Watcher Of The Scene

[micki]

well sorry, I didn't seem to understand it from your text...I must be a bit bimbo or something...

"the Child of the new Season"

[AV_defender]

i thought it was clear in the first sentence of the message<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
calm down micki,youre not bimbo at all:)

/Defender-The Watcher Of The Scene

[micki]

OK, thanx...:) good to know...

"the Child of the new Season"

[Trent]

This (The definition of religion and faith) is all basically what I said about 3 pages back...*Really starting to think that people aren't reading anything he says*

"When I close my eyes, I see my soul...When I open them, I see yours"...
Trent

[AV_defender]

ofcourse ive read it,but i dont know..we suddenly slipped closer into the subject again...so..i just wrote what i feel about religion,i didnt think of that youve written almost the same b4...

/Defender-The Watcher Of The Scene

[micki]

well Trentie, I did read it, I just tried expressing it in a bit different words, that's all...understand? I really hope you didn't get insulted...

"the Child of the new Season"

[Avil]

I think it´s quite interesting that so many people can think in the same way in things, especially when it comes to own interpretations of things

~/~/~Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, live today~/~/~

[micki]

well...after all..we are all people - and we love AV <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

"the Child of the new Season"

[Dingerz]

I don't believe in any religion and I don't like organized religions at all but we still celebrate Christmas! Christmas is not about the birth of Christ at all for me (in fact that would ruin it for me) It is about family, giving, sitting under your Christmas tree with your feet up to the fire, drinking hot chocolate and watching your fav music videos - and best of all NO ESSAYS...heh. Why is it special - cause it is a peaceful time according to how I want it. And that is the way it should be for everyone - it shoudl represtent whatever you want it to be whether you choose to adopt a religious notion or not. I mean it's a holiday that can be tailored to anything you want - so why not make the best of it?

People have just adopted thw word cause that is the most univerally recognized word for the "holiday" that happends to occur during December. If businesses and schools are run according to this calendar, why can't we then change it into anything we want?

I just have an issue with purists who think that people should not celebrate Christmas unless you are religious. Why? Cause of personal issues. For example my cousings are buddhist (sp?) and they have stopped coming to visit us at Christmas all of a sudden. Why? Cause we put up the tree and we have the dinner. We have never of course been religious and it is not like we push anything uncomfortable on them (as say prayers) but they have decided that since we celebrate "Christmas" then well we obviously clash with their beliefs..

And here we thought it was all about family...

Then again, I have never liked a black and white world which organized religion tends to impress on everyone.. (and I don't mean religion in itself, I mean the ORGANIZED institution which is often oppressive)

Tara :)

[micki]

yeah...I never think about it as a day to celebrate the birth of Christ, but when you for example look at the name, it's obvious;

Merry (spelled the same way as Mary, the mother of Jesus) Christmas...

...but still, being an Agnostic I don't lean towards any religious organisation or beliefs while celebrating it, it's just a time of the year that I spend together with my mom, as I see her only twice a year during the holidays...and of course the X-mas spirit that still lives in some of the people...I think that's just cozy!! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

"the Child of the new Season"